It was a while ago but decades after the NWT was published. My aunt and uncle had a Witness book that compiled various translations, a sort of parallel translations. I was certain it was bs so I examined it more closely. There were some upscale translations in it. The Society gained some points in my view. Now I am wondering how they got the copyright clearances.
Band on the Run
JoinedPosts by Band on the Run
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52
Watchtower Elders Disfellowship an Elder After Talk- Very Shocking And Troubling
by Scott77 infrom http://christianwitnesses.com/, i read the following below.
please what is your reaction to the action of the two elders?
if the account is colloborated, then its very troubling and shocking to say the least.
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Have you ever liked ANY good non religious articles in WT or AW?
by Iamallcool ini do not want to hear from any jw apologists.
thank you!.
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Band on the Run
I despised every edition of the Watchtower. When I was in elementary school in an economically deprived area, I was quite a voracious reader. I still am. Sometimes Awake was ok. It gave me an edge over my classmates who exposed to nothing. My parents adored National Geographic. We owned only a few books. Awake was ok but I would have read a toothpaste tube as Oscar and Felix did on retreat. I stopped reading Awake by 6th or 7th grade unless we visited my Witness aunt and uncle. They were so important to me and I love them deeply. The only non-JW material they had was my uncle's photography magazines with instructions on nude photog. My aunt could not read Woman's Day or McCall. As the adults engaged in Witness gossip, I would glance at Awake.
The illustrations we were exposed to as young, impressionable children is the subject of much humor between my brother and myself. We are laughing so we don't cry. I feel it is a form of child abuse. Violence and sex seem to go together. I bet those photos are not there to educate but to terrify into submission. The whole genre is something to observe and walk away from quickly.
Oh, I grew up with Jesus emphatically not having a beard. Every male but Jesus had a beard. It must been hard obtaining shaving supplies in the wilderness. As an adult, the chalice visited the Metropolitan Museum of Art. It was surrounded by chalices from the same time period with Jesus with beards. Now, I looked in my laundromat and Jesus grew a beard. If they did not hammer so vociferously sans beard, who would care? They never learn, do they? They always paint themselves into a corner.
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Have you ever liked ANY good non religious articles in WT or AW?
by Iamallcool ini do not want to hear from any jw apologists.
thank you!.
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Band on the Run
I despised every edition of the Watchtower. When I was in elementary school in an economically deprived area, I was quite a voracious reader. I still am. Sometimes Awake was ok. It gave me an edge over my classmates who exposed to nothing. My parents adored National Geographic. We owned only a few books. Awake was ok but I would have read a toothpaste tube as Oscar and Felix did on retreat. I stopped reading Awake by 6th or 7th grade unless we visited my Witness aunt and uncle. They were so important to me and I love them deeply. The only non-JW material they had was my uncle's photography magazines with instructions on nude photog. My aunt could not read Woman's Day or McCall. As the adults engaged in Witness gossip, I would glance at Awake.
The illustrations we were exposed to as young, impressionable children is the subject of much humor between my brother and myself. We are laughing so we don't cry. I feel it is a form of child abuse. Violence and sex seem to go together. I bet those photos are not there to educate but to terrify into submission. The whole genre is something to observe and walk away from quickly.
Oh, I grew up with Jesus emphatically not having a beard. Every male but Jesus had a beard. It must been hard obtaining shaving supplies in the wilderness. As an adult, the chalice visited the Metropolitan Museum of Art. It was surrounded by chalices from the same time period with Jesus with beards. Now, I looked in my laundromat and Jesus grew a beard. If they did not hammer so vociferously sans beard, who would care? They never learn, do they? They always paint themselves into a corner.
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Band on the Run
My major gripe is with picking a few verses out of context rather than reading the entire book and canon in a few sittings. Personally, I don't know every detail Jesus meant. He could have been clearer and say "Whatever the WTBTS says to do, do it." He declined to make that statement. The surrounding culture in which Jesus was molded is important to know to help context. Jews, in general, don't proselytize but perhaps specific groups did. It is crucial whether he meant the core twelve or the multitudes that flocked to check this powerful teacher.
Jesus or Shakespeare said that the devil can quote scripture for his own purpose. What is so spectular about the Witnesses that Jesus would use them as the sole organ of His gospel? I feel Jesus had superb social skills. He partied, he dined with Pharisees with no arguments, had very close friends, and Mary Magdalene had prominence, no matter the details. I think he would use YouTube, i tunes, this site, mass rallies in major world cities, drop leaflets from planes the way the CIA does.
The Witnesses will never triumph when scriptures are read in context the way they were intended. The Bible isn't a collection of stories here and there. The authors went to great trouble to emphasize certain points. Certainly, the four gospels agree 95% of the time but there are factual differences. The earliest document, Q, only contained Jesus sayings. It was flushed out with narrative. When lawyers write legal briefs, they must first summarize the agreed facts. Highlighting your facts to sway the argument without misleading the court is an art form.
When Jesus want the potential convert to not listen b/c people want an oasis of privacy, their homes. Also, I only encounter Witnesses at airports, bus terminals in NY and Philadelphia. They sit on a bench and talk in deep conversation with each other. Try to get a WT or Awake from them! It is some feat. They are not the least bit engaged. One Witness on a train platform was different. I told her about my deep family ties to Bethel. Further, I explained what college exposed me to in the Bible and that the Witnesses lie. She was articulate, well-spoken, dressed decently. She sent me a written letter offering ME a Bible Study. She had balls but she made a wholehearted effort.
If they used other means of outreach, they would not be an international joke.
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bologna
by TheLoveDoctor inwhat do you call this.
there is clearly a distinction between the inspired writings of the bible and other writings that, while manifesting a measure of the spirits direction and guidance, are not properly classed with the sacred scriptures.
as has been shown, in addition to the canonical books of the hebrew scriptures, there were other writings, such as official records concerning the kings of judah and israel, and these, in many cases, may have been drawn up by men devoted to god.
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Band on the Run
Do they believe that the early Christians had a governing body? Which city or region? If it were the group in Jerusalem led by James, Paul was in direct confrontation with them. Christianity as Jewish sect and Christianity embracing the world are two different messages. This summarizes what I dislike about the Witnesses. They lie about factual matters. Wikipedia must cut into their recruiting efforts. When I was a child, I was so full of myself for being exposed to adult scholarly literataure through the WT. I grew up and read the lit. myself. Outright lies, misconstructions. Whoever conceived and wrote this article was fully aware they were lying about the facts. Opinions can differ but objective facts do exist.
It is not the end of Western civilization but it is humiliating. Also, it is hard to refute b/c how many rank and file are PhD candidates or have some other accesss to academic databases. It is embarassing.
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Need help making NON JW Friends. LOL!!
by lil.lady.03 inso its been a whomping 5 months since i stopped going to the meetings!!
yay!!!.
and its amazing how quickly i have let go of everything!!.
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Band on the Run
I went from many friends in high school to zero friends in college b/c I was afraid I would not fit in. A self-fulfilling cycle existed. Making friends is very circumstantial. I eventually assimilated, became outgoing, and met tons of people I adored easily when I was on the rat race track. Illness forced me off that track into isolation. I forced myself to go out into the community. Meetup did not help me much b/c the nearest decent city is a two hour commute.
There are people who seem to have tons of friends. I'd rather have a few close friends. Good luck. It is a painful transition but one well worth making.
Some day you will wake up and realize you made the transition. You are truly yourself and cherished for it. It won't happen with Witness friends. If you had so much with Witnesses, imagine your fun without the bs/
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bologna
by TheLoveDoctor inwhat do you call this.
there is clearly a distinction between the inspired writings of the bible and other writings that, while manifesting a measure of the spirits direction and guidance, are not properly classed with the sacred scriptures.
as has been shown, in addition to the canonical books of the hebrew scriptures, there were other writings, such as official records concerning the kings of judah and israel, and these, in many cases, may have been drawn up by men devoted to god.
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Band on the Run
There were only a few books considered scriptural in Jesus time. Both old and new testament were canonized much later. The Witnesses make it sound as though Peter, Paul, James and the rest sat across a table and stamped "canon" on some books and not others. I've read some of the debates concerning whether certain books should be included. Job was almost excluded, as was other Wisdom literature. If I recall correctly, scripture for Jesus would have been the Torah, Psalms and major prophets. The Christians fiercely debated whether to have one inclusive gospel or four gospels with different empahses. It was an intellectual and political process. Magic did not happen. Each region vied for its particular tradition. One thing I've noticed clearly. All the initial defining work of Christianity occurred in the Middle East and not Rome. The bishop of Roman was only a bishop. No big deal.
Why doesn't the Watchtower discuss this time period in detail? Gnosticism flourished during this time. They did not believe that the physical world was good. Rather, a lesser god created the universe. One's essential self or spark existed out there and could be reached with special knowledge. Jesus was not God in their formulation but a teacher who only appeared to be here. He was not crucified or resurrected in actuality. The Desert Fathers, whose pithy sayings were collected by Thomas Merton in The Wisdom of the Desert also played a huge role. Christianity was malleable. It could have evolved in other ways.
I have no idea when the WT stops believing in the progress of Christianity. They face a serious problem if it were before canonization. I don't know what could happen that a particular date would be chosen. Monday we have true Christianity. Tuesday the same people are no longer Christian. This statement appears to be written b/c of all the publicity Gnosticism has received in the past few years with more and more new finds. They were splashed all over every major newspaper and the Internet. I've read Gnostic Gospels extensively. The core stories and sayings about Jesus are the same as the canonized gospels in most cases. The interpretation is very different, however. I assume that Jewish Christians believed in a nontrinitarian viewpoint and the teachings did not sell in the wider world. Paul's influence is gigantic. If Paul were not around, someone else would have emerged, IMO. Recently, I've come to suspect that Paul is a Western tradition. Indians believe St. Thomas preached to them and established their main churches. I lived in a polygot NY neighborhood with may different rites on top of each other.
So out of this diversity, only Charles Taze Russell sees the Truth. All the heresy battles through the Middle Ages were meaningless. If you interview the Christians burnt at the stake, I think they believe differently. I encourage everyone to read these documents. It is like eating from the forbidden fruit. They lie. I don't mean regular Witnesses. The leaders lie.
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"SECRETS OF PEDOPHILIA" CD Court Records Now FREE to Download
by AndersonsInfo inwe're happy to announce that now all 5,000 pages of court records from the nine child sexual abuse lawsuits involving sixteen victims, settled by watchtower in february 2007, are available for free download from our website, www.watchtowerdocuments.com.
there are a total of twelve files, besides a file containing a commentary explaining the lawsuits, and each file can be downloaded separately.
due to the fact that many people purchased the cd, "secrets of pedophilia in an american religion," thus, reimbursing us for the expense to buy, compile and publish the court documents, there is now no reason to sell the material anymore.
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Band on the Run
Children are so vulnerable yet organized religion protects the perps time and time again. I feel the cover-up is worse than the original crime in many ways. The people doing the cover-up have excellent impulse control. It boggles my mind how someone can not act to protect the most vulnerable of all humans. And they dare to claim the Holy Spirit? You can be correct about theological doctrines (which they are not) but the true test of Christianity is what you for the least of humanity?
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You ever go through extended moments where nothing satisfies you, to the point you wouldn't mind dying?
by miseryloveselders indon't get me wrong, this isn't a call for help or anything like that.
i'm not about to do anything stupid, just feeling a little down and exhausted tonight.
i feel defeated, even though i don't feel as if i'm battling anything.
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Band on the Run
Sadness can slip into depression easily. Depression needs an MD to screen you. I suffer depression so I am in therapy and take meds. They make a profound difference. I studied psychoanalytic theory in college so I was against meds in theory. Now I realize how biological and beyond my control depression can be. Exercise helps. If you have serious concerns past a philosophical reflection, see an md stat. It takes time for antidepresants to work. There are other biological treatments now. ECT is much different. Brain stim exists, too.
The meds don't work miracles. They provide me a platform for me to do therapy and go out in the world. I was ill for agonizing pain with a 95%+ suicide rate for decades. Isolation is a big problem. A job would take care of most of my depression as would moving back to Manhattan. I honed a certain persona for myself and it is not living in exurbia with a bunch of dubs.
I had many hospitalizations for the pain. I'd see people suffering so severely lifting a finger was extreme effort. As soon as the meds hit, like the very second, they were utterly transformed. People that did not seem worth caring for b/c they were so insubstantial had riveting personalities. The WTS teaches that shrinks take your will. Another massive lie. I felt a tiny bit of guilt at first but it vanished in no time. If you've never seen a psy doc, no hocus pocus goes on.
Another measure that might be helpful that was recommended for me is to attend AA meetings to get out of the house and be among people who are going through a rough patch too. Most AA meetings are open. Any Twelve Step program has open meetings. Some are closed so you should clarify it before showing up.
Hope you soon feel better. If you are bright enough to seek help as here, you should be okay with self care and a doctor.
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Comment about Family and Community Shunning
by Band on the Run ini was minding my own business, out of my jw zone, reading a current best-seller, the finkler question, a man booker prize winner, by howard jacobson.
the main character, julien, has two jewish friends with very different views of israel.
the older one, libor, feels he may end up in israel b/c he will have no choice.
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Band on the Run
I was minding my own business, out of my JW zone, reading a current best-seller, The Finkler Question, a Man Booker prize winner, by Howard Jacobson. The main character, Julien, has two Jewish friends with very different views of Israel. The older one, Libor, feels he may end up in Israel b/c he will have no choice. The younger character, Sam, favors the Palestinians. The two argue good-naturedly. Libor cautions Sam that he is wrong to criticize Israel in front of Gentile friends, like Julien.
"One keeps it to oneself,"
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Ah, yes, the family argument"
"When a member of your family acts erroneously Libor, is it not your duty to tell him?"
"Tell him, yes. Boycott him, no. What man would boycott his own family?"
Casual reading reveals yet again, the lack of love and respect toward others as demonstrated by the WTS.